Season 2 Episode 5 - Modern Day Knights
🚨New episode! Noble steeds at the ready!🚨
Have you seen the post that’s going around about the fact the word “freelance” comes from the medieval term for a mercenary warrior?Â
Well, this week’s episode is all about wielding the basics when it comes to being a creative freelancer.
We talk about the pitfalls, what we like to do and what we suck at.
It can definitely feel like a battle sometimes but united we stand and divided we fall, and all that!
We raise our swords(mics) in respect to the voice of this weeks’ Voiceover Performance of the week Hannah Gardiner @hannahgardinervoice She smashed it out of the park with a powerful ad for Oxfam, excellent work Hannah 👌
Join our freelance army and listen now wherever you get your podcasts. Like to see your podcasts happening?
We got you, head to our youtube channel and make sure you give us a follow.
Transcript
hello hello hello we are back once again welcome to episode five of The offir
Voice podcast you always introduce it I’m
jumping in you remember in the first first round we were doing it we like we have to say at the same time now I still I still
stand by that I want to do that still we never Managed IT yeah so uh so
yeah so welcome to episode 5 so we’re sort of just over the halfway point now for the Eight Episodes we’re going to do
for this season so far it’s been great it’s been really the the the change of format seems to be uh quite well
received you know like just having a straight run through some of the guests we’ve had on um you know the YouTube
videos as well like you know film and everything so just it’s good to try new things obviously this is quite a new space
but yeah and today I’ve decided so here we go I feel like it’s like where’s Wally like every episode like I’m
somewhere different that’s how I think about it where’s Wally going to be this time I’ve just got quite a few recordings to do today so rather than Fu
about taking the computer out and going into other room thought I’m just going I just cuz I’m stood up I feel like I don’t know what to do myself so those
that watching actually since we’ve um started doing it on YouTube and I’ve seen some of the recordings back I realize how much I move like just I’m i’
telling myself to stand the [Â __Â ] still so apologies to anyone I can’t do that um I get a chair in here so we can
be all like cash and chatting and yeah well I was thinking I need so what I’ve done is so I’m waiting for my Visa to
come through so what I’ve done is um I’ve got this vocal booth to go reestablished which is great these
things are fantastic if you need like a pop-up thing yeah um I just need to get a bit of a stool or something you know so I I I like a stool but then don’t you
not feel like you’re in a boy band and you have to like a solo like the West Life bit and then it’s like it’s not
working then when when it gets that bit with it changes like swaying and like um yeah but but I find though cuz I
find for me standing up makes me feel a bit more free opens your diaphragm but then was it uh was it Anthony said when
he was on that actually there was a thing about when you sit down yeah well Nick’s just done some things well Nick Redmond um Talk about the fact that it
doesn’t squish up your organs which is the m organs but Sur yeah I still I when I’m voicing I
prefer to stand but I guess for this it’s just literally us having a chat isn’t it maybe it’d be good to try we’re
trying things aren’t we I get a stool for next time we’ll see I am going to try and get a stool yeah um but there’s
not I haven’t got a great deal of space so I’m just sort of making a I absolutely love the fact that anybody anybody came for some content we’re
talking about STS well this is this is this is how you define being I don’t
know just honest and raw like I I do think it’s interesting like and I think people ask like you know what’ you do
when you’re voicing do you sit down you stand up do you do a mixture like I do think it’s genuinely interesting and but maybe not us and recording the podcast
yeah yeah guess so so how’s your week been so far what is it today’s Thursday isn’t it today is Thursday it’s um it’s
got better um but I am so affected by
the season change I think like I’m really struggling with how dark it is like you open your curtains and it’s no lighter yeah I’ve got one of those fancy
alarm clocks though that you know like gradually gets light to wake you up so I just need to start using that again cuz I do get quite affected by it um and the
pissing rain has not helped oh my God that downfall we had two days ago it’s
just been literally Relentless like flooding and everything so um but the sun has come out yesterday and I felt my
mood lift and I had an amazing job this morning with a like a love with client so that’s put me in a good mood as well
I’m very what can I say yeah does um they call this it’s called sad isn’t it like the seasonal something Seasonal
effective disorder yeah I I I literally thought somebody who made that open it was like you know everyone there’s like
a name for everything now do you know that’s been around a long time um
yes it’s no jokes but I think uh it’s kind of changing well if you can changing mindset as well
for me this is not somebody who’s suffering very severely with it but because this is this is the UK isn’t it
this is the next like six months of like darkness and rain and it’s just switching sorry [Â __Â ] off with your
fronts God is it much better there oh my I’ll tell you what listen I’m not going to I always say this right home is
always home but it’s not until you experience living somewhere else that you appreciate that you what you could potentially be missing yeah so and the
weather a lot better though in France the climate is yeah is the climate is definitely nicer like yeah although you’ve not done a witer yet have you a
full winter no but they do have obviously you know obviously it’s cold but um it’s not I think I think just here
like seriously cold like it just feels bit brighter over there so it’s so I to
live in New Zealand uh for about five years and they have it’s kind of obviously it’s flipped the seasons but
they so they have about I know seven or eight months of Sun so you know now it’s like if it’s a sunny day everyone’s like I have to get outside we have to have a
barbecue we have to make the most of this and there’s quite a lot of pressure to like enjoy yourself and be living your best life whereas over there it’s
like oh no it be sunny tomorrow it’s okay can’t take the pressure off a little bit and people walk around a lot more erect which I Know You’re gonna
laugh but like of all the words you could have picked I know I couldn’t think of a different one but there we go
I’m standing by it um I can’t even take myself seriously
now it’s much nicer and I what I got if new zealanders walking around with a hard on like every was over here I went
when I got back to when I got back to Manchester it was literally like people were walking bow bow bowed you don’t
mean one like the bent over because I don’t think it’s literally the weather it’s like crushing people spirits and it was a huge difference anyway that’s a
bit miserable but anyway the sun’s out and I’m feeling good just to wrap that up I will say actually yeah like so with
it being with the climate being nicer over there all the time I generally felt like I had a bit of a spring in my step every day cuz it was just Pleasant
outside yeah although you are living with a you know reasonably new girlfriend as well I would hope you’d have a pretty good spring this any year
now it’s a year now is it year wow yeah yeah it’s nice she’s a keeper so so
anyway right waffle over so waffle over waffles are forgiven baby like can you please start please start
put chapters in so we can skip this sh but you know what we wanted this to be like a water cooler moment you and I
would definitely be discussing this at a water cooler so welcome to our brains yeah um so yeah so no it’s been all
right I’ve got I’ve booked a job yesterday which I am unbelievably excited about so you know me and my sports promos yeah um so I’ve got one I
think by the time this comes out this episode I think the promo will have already been out because it’s for the rug league and it’s for the final that’s
been held at Old Trafford on the 12th of October so it’s going to go out on Sky Sports and I think there’s a possibility
it might be played out around Old Trafford because it’s one of those promos god well I don’t know for certain because you know like in boxing you know
when you know like in the headline boxing fight they have that promo film that plays boxing it’s one of those oh
my God it’s one of those it’s proper it’s going straight in with the Batman voice and yeah they heard my Formula One
stuff and and one of my massive Inspirations sha douy he did it a couple years for me to then do a project that I
he once did and he you know is one of my Inspirations just feels I feel so so privileged so oh I can’t wait to hear
that it’s going to be amazing yeah looking forward to uh I’m just I can’t wait the first like even the first word like what is it history yes straight was
history and I bang off I go I just cannot wait are you protecting your voice better now cuz you did have smes
with the Batman voice no because I told so what happened was when I started doing the Graal I’m not over when I said
I joke Batman cuz everyone sort of says a gr voices like Batman but it’s not actually overly forced I just dropped
into a lower range but because I spent so much time doing it I actually started to damage my cords a little bit so I
only have to drop it a tiny bit and I’m almost there so it’s dead okay do you know what I mean okay I think the Batman
voice is way over pronounced it’s ridiculous how Christian when yeah sorry Christian um what you said though about
like when this airs it’ll maybe out whatever I can I just apologize now to anybody who listen to the podcast cuz I
am [Â __Â ] when when it comes to dates so many times I’ve been like get your boxing in this is I listen to part of it
what am I talking about I cannot keep dates in my head so please if you’re listening to podcast don’t take anything
that I say about dates as accurate it’s just not cuz on the last one I was like we said oh you got the social tomorrow
went yeah and give us a shout if you go and I was like H this will be out once the whole thing’s over
so oh my God I’m so sorry I just can’t keep it in my head but I am when this a
Vox won’t have happened and I feel like there’s a lot of box conversations as well around the moment which is quite nice I’m enjoying those often about
masks um about masks I’m still yeah Fant some of the opera star that’s the plan
yeah right should we get on with it oh okay let’s do it if you’re still here promise you we about stuff so related to
voice over freelancing in general yeah so in episode two we had a bit of a fun
list thing that I came uh came across and I thought that the list uh was interesting stuff to talk about bu
relatable so I did another one and this one is all about uh effectively being
freelance um the challenges of been freelance you know the the UPS the downs
and the good thing is obviously we’ll we’ll talk about from our voiceover perspective but I suppose really freelance in all forms you know there’s
a lot of relatability to it oh yeah and it’ be really interesting to hear other people’s opinions actually like if you do know any of the Freelancers like
share with them and see what they think see whether they can add anything to the list yeah cuz I think we’ve all got
we’ve all got our way of doing things that works for us do you know I mean or we’re learning those we’re finding those out aren’t we as you go right so I just
thought it make just an interesting topic to sort of see how you and I differ in the way because we the beauty of this is that you and I don’t agree on
a lot of things but we don’t argue about it but it’s good to have different perspective you know what I mean yes it is um so I figured that’s I’ve got um
well there’s five but we’ve condensed it down to three haven’t we so we think there’s three sort of topics within being a freelancer thought we just sort
of discuss and yeah this is an exhaustive list obviously this is talking these are just like sort of the key ones so to kick things
off um regards to being freelance and the challenges Etc finding consistent
work in a competitive market stroke building a network of clients or repeat
clients yeah so why I find this one quite interesting is so what I’ve obviously done over the course of Summer
has been doing a lot of work on my website and everything something I neglected a long time ago I always knew you have to I need to have a bit of
website presence um but actually optimizing it whatever I’ve always neglected it and on the um vo social
podcast the one they did about uh with Robin Helen that they did about money which is a great Episode by the way it’s really fascinating towards the end of
the episode Helen makes an interesting point about saying that whilst SEO Management on your website whatever is
important do not negate the importance of getting that marketing done yeah and I’ve said in the past that is one of my
biggest flaws like I have to say this point feels like a personal attack on me because I’m so [Â __Â ] right now my I don’t
have any consistency um I am not building a reliable Network I mean I’ve got some clients who I love
and they do come back which is fantastic but it’s not enough I need to actually be doing getting more so for this one
definitely like hits me hard yeah cuz I think the thing is it’s like for when I started work doing all this I just
relied heavily on the p2ps but it worked for me and then I do marketing on the side really it should have been the
other way around but it was working so it broke don’t fix it and think when you joined ptps weren’t they were they’re
getting competitive but they’re not as much as they are now like or it’s over subscribed and I do even the time that
I’ve been on them I feel like the quality of the work that’s on there has gone down right massively and definitely
that now makes up part of the smallest pool of where my comes from I think agent is the smallest like next to
nothing Cherry yeah and then p2ps will probably not too far behind that so yeah
um now obviously I’ve tried to switch things and try and do the marketing thing is when you’re freelance no one’s going to do it for you like you have to
put that timing a thing and you literally get out what you put in that is 100% the case and even the people who
uh voiceover artists who are working consistently all the time you know like multiple jobs per day are still
marketing that’s they’ve got that because they’ve marketed themselves they’ve put the hard work in to Market themselves consistently and repeatedly
and for years and years so what do you do then sorry Mikey carry on no it’s okay so u i saw a thing
the other day people tend to asked like what’s the numbers when you’re doing marketing stuff and I saw this really interesting
stat on um Mark Scott’s veneur Facebook page oh yeah this lady said she did 76
emails yes um out of those 76 emails she got five potential prospects and she
booked one medical job right and she was asking is that a good startat cuz I
don’t know and I found it really fascinating and people come back say that’s actually really good so it gives you like a Baseline
realistically ble though doesn’t it when and she said oh that was it and the she said she did that over 3 weeks yeah so
it gives you a good Baseline to think okay so if I want to try and book client sorry book work via doing marketing via
email obviously some people have more success yeah I think mine’s rate slightly higher or was when I was actually doing consistently but still
yeah but it just I think it’s quite an interesting St cuz I think ideally what you probably need to do is I think you
need to like I mean this is this is how I’ve formulated it now a 100 emails give
yourself a Target as to how quick you can do you have I think think don’t expect anything I’m not expecting much
if I do less than 100 so if you do if you do 50 there’s no point going off certain 50 I got nothing it’s I guess
you got to work out your numbers haven’t you and I think this is where a lot of the the voice overs who have been doing this a long time they use the analytics
don’t they and Mark talks about this Mark scar so looking at your numbers like what is your rate um so how many
emails are you sending out and what’s the how many people are getting back to you and then how many you’re actually booking so looking at that and think
then as you said then be like okay so I know my like the ladies is 76 for her booking rate she’s got to send out 76 to
get a job on average so it’s having that in your mind like knowing that like you say but it’s just doing it I think
that’s the problem in it it’s staying consistent obviously when you are I mean like I think with voice over I think
most Vios will contest that the actual voice inside of the job is probably the least amount of time you know a lot of
it is doing the marketing maybe auditioning but actually spent recording yeah I don’t think many videos literally
wake up and start recording 9205 or whatever no unless audio books yeah yeah
yeah but so there’s definitely time to do it the other one that I’ve started to leverage recently and I’ve talked about this in the past is Linkin yes and I am
all in on LinkedIn now the way you said that was like like a dirty word LinkedIn I said the old M&S adverts this is not
just any social media yeah um still they held up apart from what’s his chops they started doing it thingy Carriage Tom
Carriage is doing he was like a takeover have you heard it so they still got the marks and Spencer music in the
background but instead of like the sexy um audio woman who I don’t know her name
um he’s doing it and you’re like ah just doesn’t hit the same not yeah no it doesn’t it’s just him and like he’s he’s
you know people know him and know his voice so that’s why they use him but yeah it’s uh interesting but yeah so
definitely being part of freelance is the just the absolute necessity to spread your spread yourself far and wide
so I’ve started leveraging LinkedIn more now and communicating on there and I’ve already had work it I’ve built some
great connections off it and I do feel like again it just comes back to that idea of just I mean cuz I I’m terrible
for it but I can say for sure just doing it will inevitably bring the results in um it will it will and I think um I
mean I remember Carla talking about this quite a lot when she came on last season and she’s used it consistently and I’ve
not not booked much through but I’ve I think I’ve got a couple of direct clients through there like one of them
was Chrispy cream that was amazing like you just that I wouldn’t have got had it not been for Linked In so it’s um
definitely worth it if you put the effort in I think yeah and I think the way the um the point is mentioned about
in a competitive market because that is so true yes so true like nowadays you’re up against more aren’t you like
obviously you’ve got emerging technology like I know we banging about AI all the time but it is very re relevant you’re
up against people who are now looking to try to use AI instead so you may start getting offer well we might I mean this
hasn’t happened to me but I’m sure people have experienced it that they say well you know AI is a lot cheaper but what what you’re charging is too much if
you bring your breakdown I’m sure people have had instances like I’m sure they have but like when I think was it Vox
last year even when they did the the the the pivot to being about human voices
and there was a lot of conversations about AI obviously and a lot of voice over artist were talking about having
had lost jobs to AI around e-learning particularly and I mean that I’ve not had that yet but it’s um it just seemed
like it is happening a lot so it is like okay so now we just need to up our game again yeah well it’s it is it is out
there but U people are also coming back and I saw a really interesting the other day and this no was today actually and
she said that um as some people start she’s a she was a copywriter she’s not voice over but still relevant and she
says as people start to get fed up with Bland AI material yeah the fact that you
can provide something real and refreshing the the need for that is is expected to go up yeah so you just got
to weather the storm a little bit you know what I mean but again trying to get yourself out there with other these things you know to deal with um because
it is competitive and and obviously the slurge of new people coming into video slurge that’s evocative
word actors who don’t act as like it’s a bad word okay I take offense to that as
well just coming in taking all the jobs no cuz Kelly talked about it as well she was saying that she’s you know a lot of
actors are trying to try try and do vo as well yeah you know it’s just another thing and I’m not trying to be all doom
and gloom because I think all you can ever really do is just work on yeah you being the best version of there’s always
the you have is just try be better it there’s no point getting overwhelmed by
it okay well it is there so that means and I think it’s very easy to and like I certainly find it quite overwhelming
sometimes but it is just doing it and I’m in a bit of like a RT at the moment in terms of not doing it and I know that
I’ll get over it because I have to but so in terms of like that’s emailing so direct emailing um I found that really
uh helped me build my client list and then have neglected it so I need to get back into it but I think that’s a really positive way you said LinkedIn again
consistently and I think um social media I can find again overwhelming because you could do it forever and ever and ever and I think what some people do
very well is actually like okay so these These are the clients I want to Target these are the ones I’m going to aark I’m
going to flag them or whatever you do put the Bell on or something so I get the notifications and I’m I’m just focusing down on them I’m like blocking
out time to do that otherwise you can spend hours and lose hours just scrolling and and if you connected with
a voiceover artist which I don’t do as much on linked to I try not to you’re just getting you’re seeing all theirs
which is lovely but it’s they’re not going to give me work well I will share something actually and this this isn’t
particularly you know it’s not rocket science anyway but I’ll share it regardless just it’s another success story I suppose so my one of the
problems I had with linked all the time I felt like it was quite disingenuous you know so if you’re and we laughed about this in an older episode yeah you
know people who you know would potentially book you for work if you’re liking or commenting their stuff and they see a barrage of voiceovers on
there I was like it looks it looks disingenuous in my opinion so I didn’t really want to play that game but
ultimately people on LinkedIn are there to make connections with whichever side you’re on you still want to book work
yeah so all I did was all I’ve done is um for the people that I want to sort of
get to know maybe get to know better or whatever I’ve reached out to them off the back of a post if it related to me
and I went in with just that angle so rather be like CU I think some people like hey you make videos I do voiceovers let’s work it’s like who the [Â __Â ] are
you like do you know what I mean there’s no connection there there’s no there’s nothing to like sort of build off so
anyway all I did was I just contacted some people and off a post said oh um uh I thought I just drop you a follow or
connection request and they’ve accepted what so I saw your post are really related to it uh whatever and lo and behold like it’s there’s a relatability
there and it’s led to things it’s led to more conversations when it’s genuine it’s lovely just it I still it still
makes me cringe where there people that you really want to work with or connect with and then they you comment on their post and you see like the 10 voice ever
artists and you’re like G I just finally like G yeah if people if people talk to
me in corporate speak I spit switch off straight away cuz I know it’s not real I know that when I feel like I’m just
being sales sales pitched CU I feel like when the do shut and they’re living their normal life that person who’s
talking to me now in corporate speak that person’s not there anymore I want to know the other version I want to know the real version cuz that’s who I’m
going to relate to not this person who’s telling me what I want to hear so I can buy off them that’s not authentic to me
and I think when you reach reach out to people on LinkedIn yes they’re human beings and they’re professionals sorry yes they’re professionals but they are
human beings and I think you just for me the angle was just if there was a post that they had and and it was genuine and
related to it that was my sort of way to say oh about this is this is why I sent you a connection request no mention of work no mention of can send you this
just that just that was my in and because it was authentic it’s worked so I don’t know if if no one’s tried that I
would definitely try it just be your real self you know yeah stay professional you know but this is this is what has worked for me
so yeah I think it’s just you see a lot of people I’ve seen quite see a lot of people I’ve seen people message I don’t
know how to make connections and stuff and it’s because they’re trying too hard to get work when really you just need to need to just focus on making an
authentic reason to connect and it will it’ll organically go from there you know what I mean I do yeah it’s good advice
so that’s that okay next one yeah next one managing time between auditions and
projects okay so this is managing your time between the fun stuff like doing the actual voicing it’s
all the other stuff yeah so well I mean really depends if you’ve got loads of
auditions coming in the only the only time I find that stress is if it’s a larger Pro I mean I don’t do audio books or anything yeah I would probably expand
on this and say it’s not just about auditions and projects because like I said before I
think recording time actually takes all probably the least amount of time it’s all the other [Â __Â ] that gets thrown in as well you know if you’ve got children
if you got you know some people have a parttime job if you’ve got um just all
the marke a podcast yeah all the marketing side that’s really where it becomes difficult it’s just like your
whole life isn’t it it’s just managing that yeah and I think so like fitting
exercising and um think about the weather as well because I really love running but as the season changed and it
gets dark a lot earlier I don’t feel all that safe A lot of the time when you’re going running in the dark and so it’s
kind of being like okay so I have a small window of time and it’s just trying to fit everything in as you say um and it’s kind of methods to do that
so I know a lot of people talk about how time blocking is really beneficial for them um so that they know exactly what
they are you know what they’re doing when and they stick to that which I think is very impressive and I I do think that’s necessary to a certain
extent as well yeah cuz we’ve sort of had a conversation like that recently we were like after 6 no more podcast talk
you know it’s time to switch off and that’s healthy to set those boundaries though I agree but do you not find it sometimes like with all the stuff you’ve
got to do is a bit overwhelming it’s like I have days sometimes where I beat myself up a little bit because I’ve not done enough marketing yeah I’ve got
auditions that I mean I don’t get overwhelmed with auditions there’s not like hundreds a day or anything can I just say like auditions I find this
really interesting and I don’t know if it’s American or pay to plays whatever
but some people were like oh and I did um 30 auditions in a day and I’m like
where are you find where are you getting these from that has to be mostly P2P because
sign up but I mean like think about I’m only on voice one two three at the moment in terms of Peter please Peter P
Peter please P that’s what it feels like sometimes that’s a whole different
podcast um they but they hardly on there on there you might get a one or two a
day that fit in my category and but I guess it is mainly American isn’t it but
they yeah they’re like oh I’ve done 30 and I’m like how and unless they’ve got agents in like every state or something
and uh you know AC Europe there are some hyper successful Vos who have been doing
I’m not talking about are hyper successful these are people who are just everyday Schmucks like I well that’s
just got to be P tops if you spread yourself wide on the P tops you know what if you got five or six good ones
that would took ages even if like you were like smashing it out and be like hey I nailed that 5 minutes down move on
but I can’t I cannot imagine especially if it was like a character one it’s a video games one or animation whatever I
cannot knock them out that fast no um but I find it sometimes it can be there are times when it can be overwhelming
where because you are having to juggle absolutely everything and you need to be mindful of it and then there’s also there’s a business side of voice of it’s
not just about all the fun and games and trying to grow your business there’s the business side of it too yeah it’s like
you know accounting and you know all the stuff that goes with that it’s just chasing invoices doing invoices right oh
my God chasing invoices it’s all good so I think managing time between so like I’ve had
some days um I’ve got this job going on at the moment where it’s just small little videos B size videos but there’s
quite a few every week and sometimes they’ll need them on a bit of a deadline
and that can be a bit overwhelming to get that done CU obviously I need to meet that deadline yes and I get them
sometimes a little bit late and but that’s I I understood that was going to happen so that was okay so I can’t really Le about that but then with
everything else on top um there are times where I think I haven’t done any marketing this week yeah and then
because have you looked at um Outsourcing have you considered that I have considered it definitely about I
don’t know four or five months ago I was really looking to it and had a couple of conversations with people on LinkedIn about getting somebody to help me send
the emails basically because that’s where I needed support and that’s where
I wasn’t doing it basically so I did get some lead generation done um by somebody
on Fiverr and then considered having yeah somebody helped me send the emails out so it’s it’s a work in progress at
the moment I’m going to try and do it myself but it definitely certainly lead generation I would again hire somebody but it’s quality of leads and stuff I’d
need to work on that cuz I think that’s a good point when it comes to managing time then obviously an obvious option
would be to Outsource yeah um I don’t I’m not a control freak I am very like
particular getting someone to send your emails felt like the next level and I was like oh I’m not sure if I trust
people that much and also you feel bit extravagant like well because it’s just
me so I was like well why do I I should be able to do everything um which is a clearly a problem of mine generally but
that’s the it’s like you want to have full control over everything and it’s like then you’re annoyed because you feel so
overwhelmed it’s like no no one’s doing it for me like just ccle non it’s a
difficult yeah circle of nonsense I like that um that’s what my life is a circle of nonsense um but something actually
thinking about being overwhelmed that I some uh I think Martin um mentioned this
to me and it’s a kind of an obvious thing but something I wasn’t doing when you’re feeling overwhelmed or you know you’ve got a certain amount of time is
writing lists and I know they these help me and it’s being like okay I’m feeling like crazy busy in my head write down a
list of things that you have to get done within a day and like what you’d like to do and because when you are the kind of
person who wants to do more and more and more and more so you never feel like you’ve done enough actually having a list that is um succinct and that is
possible is very useful because if you think okay I’m going to make three new LinkedIn connections I’m going to have
one conversation with somebody I’m going to send four emails whatever it is having that to be like yes I’ve done
that take it off it’s very satisfying I guess so yeah and I used
have this thing in my pad where be like right okay so I’d write number out all the things I’ve got to do for that day and if I did it obviously I cross it out
and what I didn’t do get carried over to the next day yeah and it helped me keep some sort of organized formula everyone
have their own way of doing it CU I am largely quite unorganized it’s not because I’m lazy or anything it’s just to way my brain’s wired up I just you
know so I try and do help myself a little bit and then obviously things get get to Friday I’m just like how much
have I carried over today is going to be a big day yeah
or it’s pass over the next week yeah yeah but you so but what you’re saying at start though like it is all down to
us so like if you don’t do it it’s okay it won’t happen so like can you accept
that these things won’t happen if you didn’t do it and sometimes you have to be like you know what I’ve done as much as I can this week things are shitty the
kids are real whatever I’ve done as much as I can and that’s okay yeah well that’s yeah I’ve said that before that
you can only you know you can only work with like the time you’re allowed you know and I know we’ve We’ve joked about
sort of over bur burning yourself out and overburdening yourself with more projects the job do the jobs do need to
be done will have to be done you got to find a way somehow but the same token I think it’s also important just to certainly for me anyway be like know
what time constraints you’ve got and just work within those no there’s no point I think that’s time blocking is very useful isn’t it yeah there’s no
point beating myself up about not doing things in a time frame I haven’t got you know what I mean so and you know a lot of people have like I
said includ yourself included like kids to manage and all these sorts of things so but I do think Outsourcing does have
its merits it’s just the added expense of it as well but yeah I think it’s just having relinquishing that little bit of control and letting someone else do
things and if they like you said if they sending I know you can obviously they’ send out on your instruction I don’t know again I just
feel the client probably would never know but there’s a part of me that feels again it’s just not very authentic I’m not doing I know I struggle with that
and it’s it’s staffed really but because then presumably if they send out the first email then you do the follow-ups
like if they show an interest then you can personally get back to them and be like oh great you know and start that kind of meaningful conversation it’s
just that initial you’re sending out you’re trying to send out to a lot of people and ideally you’re personalizing
them all slightly and you know it’s massively time consuming um but I do
think yeah yeah so I do think yes so definitely in terms of being freelance managing I think managing your time is a
big thing it’s not just about auditions and projects there’s way more the throw inide as well and not then sinking into a pit of despair and front of Netflix
which I think is quite possible as the winter listen I yeah I I am guilty of that sometimes as I say if I’ve got jobs
and things that haven’t been done and I don’t have the time to do it there are times where I just I get so overwhelmed
with what needs to be done that nothing gets done I’m sort of you know mentally processing the magnitude of all these
things that need doing how much time I’ve got to do it or how much time I don’t have to do it and then in the end I just sort of yeah I just I I need to
like really G myself up so I think when people talk sorry I think it’s when people talk about like the the balance
of with reward so they’ll be like okay so I’m going to send out five emails and then I get to play my computer game for
20 minutes um is one way of doing it so being like I’m going to do my task I have to do and then I’m going to do
thing I want to do all the other way around so I’m going to play my computer game for half an hour and then I’m going
to send out 10 emails but the thing is if I do it that way around I’ll never get off my ass so I mean if that was me
i’ like I like I’ll give myself 10 minutes like [Â __Â ] it’s dark outside like that is yeah but you know you can’t set
yourself an alarm being like okay so 30 minutes is gone or whatever or you know yourself but I think it is worth doing
that otherwise it can you have to break it down don’t you into like smaller chunks otherwise it is massively overwhelming I I massively admire people
who are super disciplined like it’s I I like some people they train themselves to do it well I have to train myself to
be disciplined there are some people that just are wired a certain way where they hyper anybody’s like I mean some
people more so but it’s it’s a learn trait isn’t it like habits are that that you have to get into the habits as well
to you know do and to get into them I’m guessing you’ve still not read that book yet Atomic
habits I know the I know the general it gone to France with you is it still sitting on side table it is actually in
France with me yeah it is yeah story Reddit um twice and made notes and you yeah
like Mikey do you know what time it is oh is it time it’s time baby it’s time
for voice over of the week I’m going to work on this voice and
get it some point I absolutely love it I love it I love it okay well as we do each week it’s we take it in turn so Jen
this is your turn so yes this yes uh this week I have chosen Hannah Gardner
and Hannah has created a phenomenal voiceover performance for Greenpeace
okay and we’re going to share it obviously um for anybody’s not heard it you’ll hear it now but it is I think
it’s phenomenal um so we’ll let you listen to it first and then we’ll come back sure our Jets burn as much carbon
in a few hours as most of us do in a year but that’s part of the luxury right
but while some of us live in excess this is excess meant only for the elite
others are paying the price and fighting back and yet still the luxury of a few
is being allowed to fuel a crisis that affects us all how good is that it’s Fant I so I I I know of this piece of
work and I said to you last week I found it tremendously difficult we had a brief conversation about you know sort of
pieces of work and I think yeah I’m I’m I’m you picked very well that was a fantastic it’s such a good such I mean
it suits her voice I think it’s a fantastic ad in general but I think Hannah smashed out of the park so interesting interestingly for this one
as well I was also shortlisted for this and um I when I read it or heard the
premise of it I thought this is going to be absolute smashing ad and I just didn’t nail it and Hannah absolutely
nailed it and massive kudos to her and the whole team for creating I think it is really spot on this ad really
impactful really clever and I think she’s just her voice I think is phenomenal as well so huge well done to
Hannah massive well done Hannah yeah that’s really stand out piece yeah that’s excellent so yeah there you go so
the voice of the week this week yes is Hanah Gardner woohoo so right the next one the we’re
going to talk about is one of my least favorite things to do so negotiating rates and contracts with clients yeah I
feel so I know this is death but I feels so [Â __Â ] awkward every time they’re like so how much would you charge for this yeah the only reason why right I
imagine back in the day when like you know late ’90s early 2000s yeah when the voiceover industry was probably
less or there was less of a pool of Vos and the rates were more you know this is what you pay I think the only reason why
I’m a little bit like I I find it the the awkward chart is because so many people try to lowball you now oh and you
obviously don’t want to lose the job by low so a a good way around that is just to say what’s your budget I know idea
they never [Â __Â ] tell you and you play that horrible I mean no some do but often you have this back and forth and
they’re like well just tell us what your rates are and we’ll see and you’re like just [Â __Â ] tell me what your budget is and you’ve got grave for the brain open
and you’re looking at a rate thing and you’re like well it should be this but I suspect you’re not going to pay this
it’s because nobody wants to go first because if you go if they go all our budget is a grand and you were going to charge 400 quid like nobody wants to let
that information out there first but and I I’ve definitely lost work by telling them what it should be I’m doing air
quotes um and they come back and like oh that’s way over a budget I’m like okay well come back and let me know what is
your top end then but then they don’t or sometimes they you lose them you’re like oh that’s annoying um but conversations
yeah and I I I I I have lost work through the like on the negotiating
table not because I haven’t negotiated but because I haven’t had the opportunity to negotiate and this is one thing that bothers me a little bit
because again your freelance some people might agree with me or disagree but the reality is if
there’s a project where the fee should be 1,400 quid and they say well we’ll only give you a grand now in order to
preserve the right rates you would you know you would say okay no but I’m sorry
that 1,000 is going in someone’s bank account yeah you need to pay bill may as well be mine
and you got bills to pay I think if you if you’re turning around and saying no to a grand because of a 400 quid dispute
well you know that’s a great position to be in but it’s going to get paid to somebody and you know this is this is a
contentious issue if it’s massive stuff like if it’s a grand and it should be 200 quid absolutely not keep it I’ve
I’ve done that many times and I’ll continue to do that and they are not a client for you let them Walk On By yeah
so those ones all day they’ll get turned down but if it’s it’s like a 400 quid chain I’m not going to say no to a grand
over 400 that’s if they come back and negotiate with you and and that’s the challenge isn’t it and what’s really hilarious is it when well I find it
hilarious is when they are they’re they often use a piece of work for a multiple
different things don’t they so it might be on online there’ll be some paid they want to use it on the website they want to have it in this at events or whatever
and you’re like I have no [Â __Â ] idea so you’re like I honestly have gra for the bra race card open I’m like okay so
this should be this and like just pulling figures out your ass and it’s just so complicated sometimes and I I’m
you know you’re like this sound about right I I don’t know the good thing about the voiceover Community though is
it’s very good in sort of helping if you don’t know a rat thing you can go on like the British voiceovers Facebook group or there others there are others
and you can just ask and people with a lot of experience will be able to say yeah this is it that which is great because you don’t cuz that is one thing
where sometimes you do feel a little bit alone you know if you don’t know what the rate for something is and still now
still things like I mean I never do e-learning but I’d be like you know is it 10p is it 20p is it 30p a word like
what’s the best bit but there is support there if you need it but yeah but in terms of actually I was sometimes joke
like this is the worst part is negotiating the fees because yeah a lot of people will potentially try and lowball you and you don’t want to
undercut yourself but at the same token you know you don’t want to scare them off and sometimes when you present a
quote I always just wish like because here’s the other thing as well if you send a quote and then you say or and you
sort of referen that but this is negotiable however you want to phrase it I just feel like you’re opening cuz if
if the quote was actually in budget but you’ve given them the opportunity to say well actually we’ll we we’ll go 200 quid
less it’s like you just you’re kind of lowballing yourself so it’s yeah it’s it’s being comfortable saying this is
the fee however this is my right but you don’t want to turn away the opportunity to neg as I said if it is a grand and
they go well our budget is 800 quid you want them to know that well all right well if that’s the case I’ll still take it but it’s only 200 quid without
actually lowballing yourself an extra 200 quid you know what I mean yeah and feel coming away feeling like you’ve like done [Â __Â ] um which is difficult and
I think I don’t you just love when and often it’s direct clients and you contact someone and they ask you what
the rate is and you tell them what the rate is and you’ve done the industry standard and they say yep sounds good and you’re like oh my God they’re
they’re actually going to pay what they should should pay and I don’t have to I don’t have to negotiate or like what and
it’s I mean those feel rare at the moment but they’re out there and it and sometimes or when you say like what’s your budget and they say it’s more and
you’re like actually this is amazing like I’m holding on to you yeah it is
good the only thing I found as well recently is that um and I’ve seen people talk about this across LinkedIn is that
there seems to be less and less of companies going via agencies now and they’re trying to negotiate directly
with talent for this reason because an agency will add an agency fee and we’ll obviously be charging them top end rates
and a lot of independent companies are bypassing them and straight to vo talent
and just trying to organize it’s difficult though isn’t it because I want agents to still have
jobs and often their wage will get taken out of like the cut will come out of our
wage won’t it so like they won’t charge the company on top of that it’ll just be taken like the 10% or whatever it’ll be
taken from ours it depends on the agent doesn’t it but it’s it’s very difficult and I think I look at a contract
sometimes and I’m like I’ve got a [Â __Â ] idea and I I’m like okay I should be looking for something for AI like I’ve got no idea and like at those
times having an agent to run it past oh because they know it’s amazing isn’t it and they do they and I imagine all of
them I’m going to say some work extremely hard to get work for their clients as well so because they want to
position themselves still sorry a place I was going to say it’s definitely still a place for them oh yeah 100% And you
know they’re not going to go anywhere because a lot of good agent will want to position themselves as being like the
gateway to the massive massive clients you know the five six because they do exist you know the five
fig jobs are very very out there don’t know about six figures but well again they do exist but the five fig ones are
way more um uh out there in big numbers than people probably realize like they are
they’re not like once in a blue moon but again it’s who you’re Associated and affiliated with so agents will always
want to protect themselves uh by that has been their thing obviously what they will not want is those big massive
clients then just go we’ve got our own marketing team we’ll just go find the vo ourselves especially if then the vo actually then low balls and that’s when
everything gets brought down doesn’t it yeah cuz if you know job coming through an agent you know you are getting top work yeah and you don’t have to worry
about it CU they they’re sorting it aren’t they because if they came direct you’d be like I’d be really nervous Sor
I interrupt you again but like saying like the U five figure thing I’d be like oh this is seems like such a lot of
money even though that’s what the rate cars and telling me what it should be I you know You’ be nervous wouldn’t you
well I saw it about uh two years ago was it um there was a job that came through
um I was with a guy called Brandon Brandon Cohen and
um what happened was he sent through an audition he wasn’t the only one that had it I think he was one of a few but it was for is that Amazon or Google Chrome
I think it was Chromebook it was eight 18 Grand right and you sent the
auditions off and the same job came through on voices.com for 1500 quid
now I don’t know if that’s someone taking a [Â __Â ] ton off the top [Â __Â ] or if that is if that’s the companies then
saying well actually we can probably post this on a public forum and and charge way way less exact it was literally word for word exactly the same
Audition one and a half yeah I could believe it so it does happen oh I don’t
doubt it [Â __Â ] H that’s annoying God I’ve get really annoyed cuz I still got the uh like Mandy email so they not
signed up anymore and like I click onto them occasion and it’ll be like 100 quid for a TV ad and you’re like [Â __Â ] off
it’s just like who’s allowing that to be posted I know but also they are such
cheeky [Â __Â ] because I mean like really1 for a television commercial but
the problem is J if you’re brand new and you’ve never booked a job before the prospects of doing a TV commercial I know it’s amazing they outweighs the the
100 quid compensation you’ll get it’s just the idea of being a say I’ve got a TV commercial and you know but they should be like they’re missing out on
thousands of pounds I know I listen you’re talking to the complely agree is it’s ridiculous but but again they do it
because they know somebody will agree to it they just take advantage of people if you’ve not listened to the scams episode
go back and listen to that because I feel like they fit into that category as well that you know what that did really well that actually sorry I just did
again didn’t mean to stop talking over the tail end of what you’re saying go on I think I’ll finish got so H in here I can’t catch my
breath um that EP of scams actually went down really really well it’s it reached
other people not relevant to voiceover and just found the whole PayPal and apple example I gave quite eye opening
because it is very I hope it helps people yeah if you do look at it like
absolutely analyze it the stem on a capital I is slightly higher than a lowercase L that is but but to the naked
ey you would never yeah but you would never notice it um this has been really
fun yeah well I was just say to come off those topics just sort of wrap it up a different
spin what do you love about being freelance well I love the work I love
voicing so this is sometimes it feels like you have to do all the other stuff to get the jobs you know you have to do
that and you know it’s worth the payoff cuz like the challenge and the euphoria that you can get from doing voicing is
is is amazing but I I don’t I don’t hate marketing I just I hate doing it
consistently I like the creativity of marketing marketing until when you do Market the I’ve said it before you do
marketing it is like a bit of a slow treacherous like through but then when you get that one hit it’s the biggest
dopamine boost and it’s like oh keep doing it yeah you know and as soon as you’re sending emails you’re like God I [Â __Â ] hate this is awful and then you
get response like oh yeah great we’re going to add you to the roster I’m like oh my God okay it works I’m so [Â __Â ] pickle
honestly like one I’m like yeah sure this is absolutely great uh but you just keeping that in your head when you’re
setting them out but I suppose that makes a good point cuz that’s that is kind of also The Importance of Being freelance is you have to persevere when
it looks like nothing is happening and I tell you one thing I saw over the summer which happened a few times you do not
know who’s paying attention in the background I think some I think sometimes we like I know I say we I’m
talking about myself we can measure the success of something by the direct feedback we get yeah but actually you
don’t know who’s I’ll give you a classic example I’ve got a Christmas TV commercial coming out in November which
I cannot wait to share it’s really it’s like a John Lewis ad I can’t wait to share it’s not John Lewis had though is
it it’s not John Lewis it’s like a John lde okay it’s like a John loude yeah um s has that feel to it um what happened
was I got an email out of the blue back in July I think it was yeah July and
this lady saying oh such and such has referred you to me and you know as you do something like you know you check stra I was like the name rang gell but I
don’t know if I just sort of made that up in the moment in my head and so I went through my inbox never spoke to this lady before so I was like oh so
anyway so I found her on Instagram and uh basically said this company’s contact me and said you recommended me and she
says she goes yeah have anyway for going into the whole thing basically is aware of me and my work went I just didn’t
have a project I’ve not had a project to give you so cool but this company I know I work with this company I know work
with uh they have this project and I recommended you and I was like I’ve never dealt with this person before so
it just goes to show that just by doing the thing even if you don’t get the direct feedback it’s really uplifting to
know that people LinkedIn yeah when I first started a guy Jake um he dm’d me
says I’ve got a radio ad ad here for you never dealt with him before so you just don’t know who is paying attention to
who you are what you’re doing the work you’re providing so you just got to do the thing keep going keep going we can do
this that’s what I love about being freelance I think it’s the creativity to be able to I don’t know just sort of
make your own decisions and even with loads of different people it’s good as well isn’t it yeah and sometimes those you know what sometimes those decisions
uh oh sorry Jen just typ in need to wrap up got to go got to go I’m sorry I
didn’t see I didn’t see it standard Michael didn’t see I think we’re wrapping up really really quick um but
yeah so yeah that’s it so there you go so if you if obviously if you are freelance hopefully you can relate to a
lot of what we’ve said and if you about to embark on a Freel launch Journey there’s definitely a lot of things to consider but it’s very rewarding oh yeah
100% And just think you might might get to meet us that’s an extra bonus as well
please be nice oh thank you that was really fun all right yeah it’s uh that that is whiz
by really really quick so okay well I guess we’ll leave it there then so uh see you next week we’ll see you next
week for another episode of rumbles thanks everyone bye take care byebye bye
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