Season 2 - Episode 7 - Being Human

🚨🚨 New Episode🚨🚨

We didn’t know what to call this one at first.

Bauer Power

Radio GaGa

But inspired by our guest Simon, ‘Being Human’ is the perfect fit.

In an industry first, we have three of the wonderful Bauer team join us and if you want to voice in Radio; Paul, Simon and Tom provide candid insights in what they look for and how it works.

In true pod fashion, it’s honest and informative and we talk all things radio ads from production, working with voiceovers and the ever “popular” AI.

At the end of it all, Being Human, and yourself, is what counts the most Shout out to @dannycowanvo who is our voiceover of the week for his excellent continuity work, well done Danny!

Also, apologies for Michael’s audio in the last 10 mins, turns out his interface needs changing 🙄

See you next week for the finalè!

Transcript

okay right ladies and gents uh welcome to episode seven of the off a voiceover

podcast uh my name of course is Michael and I’m Jen welcome uh we have quite

possibly a one-of a-kind incredibly exciting I am so I’m so uh grateful to

uh to be able to share with everyone and we have three amazing people from Bower in Mr Paul day Mr Tom Hammond and Mr

Simon gall way who’ve uh decided to take or waste an hour of their lives with us

today yeah to to talk to us all things you know working with Bower working in

radio um and there’s so many things that you guys do on your side that I’ve always been fascinated about so it’s a bit of a a learning process as well and

obviously I’m sure as we said before we recorded that there’s some things that you’ve got you know that’s um to throw back at us as well so first of all

thanks so much guys for taking the time out your day to join us it really is like I think this is bit of a oneof a kind I’ve not known one before where

we’ve got three people on from B on a podcast so uh yeah I’m excited I’m definitely excited yeah also as well for

those if we’ve also got Tom and Paul doing their match of the day commentator impressions today which look if

anybody’s watching the video you’ll get the reference I did have a scarf on but I took it off yeah you need the scarf

bag you need the imagery it’d be amazing if anybody I might put it on yeah you

definitely put it on if you get but it’s so hot now anyway um it’d be amazing if you guys could just introduce yourselves a little bit about what you do for

anybody who doesn’t know you is that okay if we start start with Tom

oh the well I mean yeah my name’s Tom uh

I’ve been in production for six years now um with bow for all of that well

Wireless and then bow um I like I’ve I’ve got a new child that was just born

I don’t really how old are they uh is two is three months oh my goodness that

is early days yeah so that’s so I’m a bit rundown at the minute got a

little bit of a cold but uh I really wanted to do this season yeah absolutely

but yeah that’s me you look amazing considering you’ve got a two to three month old I looked like absolute crap at

this point you can thank my girlfriend for that cuz uh she she looked after him all last night whilst I was in the other

room which she kicked me out of by the way she put me in the other room cuz I’m coughing so oh yeah that wasn’t me but

anyway i’ I’ve gone on too long right that’s me Simon do you want to go next Paul oh

go Simon s oh f yeah yeah yeah I’m I’m Simon uh I’ve

been working in the radio industry for uh it’s coming up to 28 years W 28

yeah and uh uh let’s see 16 out of the last 20 years I’ve worked for bow SL it

was emap when I first started um and I had four years working elsewhere but

yeah I’ve essentially worked for B since 2004 uh and I’ve I’ve produced more uh

adverts and more audio than I care to remember wow I bet you’ve seen a lot bow

Boomerang as well aren’t you say yeah bow Boomerang left and came back yeah oh did you yeah thank you and

Paul yeah um so I started off life 12

and a half years ago um as a writer and producer so mate so you look look a bit

old for 12 and a halfy old sorry terrible joke I started my radio

life 12 and a half years ago so excellent skincare

routine how did you get your beard so thick for a [Laughter] 12 day one that was decision that was

the the decision newborn baby I was like I’m going to be a bearded baby um no

sorry started off my radio life 12 and a half years ago as a writer and producer writer SL producer was my official title

um and then in the pandemic we hubbed writers and producers so they made me

choose which Camp I wanted to be part of basically um and I’ve always been a writer who could knock and add together

um like I’m nowhere near the level of Simon and Tom as a producer I’ve always

been a writer who had a little bit of production skills and those little bit of production skills predominantly came

from Simon actually um when Simon used to work at k103 he came over to rock a few times and and

gave me some some tips and set up a few templates which I then just sort of plagiarized for years um if it works

yeah I’ve been yeah yeah that’s my legacy but yeah I’m a senior creative

writer these days um and I have been since the pandemic amazing so I didn’t

know you worked at q03 Simon that’s takes me back to when I was a kid going to school every morning it was Steve pen in morning you remember used to do those

uh prank phone calls I I know that he did them but I I’m not a Manchester kid

I’m from Chef field originally so I grew up with with radio hem yeah big big big up for the Yorkshire M um but no I I

started my career down in London um and you know worked down there for for quite a few years your way up and yeah work

work my way back up the country back up north uh yeah i’ worked in Liverpool for a few years up the uh up the tower Radio

City uh which is just phenomenal but not on a windy day as I’m sure Paul will testify it’s like being on a uh like

being on a cruise ship isn’t it yeah it is a bit like that yeah Bob’s about uh yeah yeah it was evacuated once in a

particularly V stor I went to UNI there and I’ve never been up it’s it’s it’s

fantastic and like as far as you know a workplace goes and location goes it’s

it’s amazing but um but yeah I mean since pandemic days worked from home I’m

quite happy with that my commuting days are over across the hall

yeah so yeah so cuz obviously so with the bower offices they’re not scattered

everywhere do these have like one Central one is it is it have you mostly done remote working with Bower or was it not was it you’d had to go into to do

work what I mean initially I was working in Liverpool then I transferred to Manchester and yeah I mean b the EAP as

was you know because it’s what is bow now is lots of little radio uh stations and bigger radio groups that have all

kind of you know been uh been hoovered up by B lots of merges and Acquisitions over the years um and so yeah that you

know but they all started out with you know local offices local Studios um but as things have become hubbed and and

network um it’s become more kind of regional um centers and offices and

things we still we still have a lot of those sites though so we we have a Preston site we have Manchester we have

Liverpool um I don’t know where your local one is Tom uh but we we yeah so

got Birmingham so we still have a lot of scattered sites and we still try and go in um but it’s very well you guys don’t

dear because you have to cut all your setup and stuff yeah and also where where you know because like for for the

writers you know they’re they’re um allocated regionally the writers are um are a national team so we are literally

dealing with clients from uh lanen to Jonah Gro right yeah we cover the whole

of of the UK so yeah so for those that won’t know know then and I’m sort of part of myself kind in this category

kind of as well just talk us through generally how it would work so you get a brief for you know company XYZ they want

to produce a radio advert talk us through how you go from that stage to picking the voice over like how does it work how do you know roughly who you’re

going to use at the beginning or How does it go start with Paul I guess yeah we receive we receive the the content

from Paul so so that’s that’s the sort of chain where it goes It goes um from

an account manager so I’ll look after those specific regions that we have account managers in and um specific jobs

will get assigned to me and then I’ll look at that brief or I might go if it’s

a bigger pitch I might go out and meet that client and take the brief myself because I’m always going to do a better job obviously um but yeah so that brief

will come to me I’ll write I I’m a bit of an anomaly because I was a producer

so I do write a lot with a voice in mind um but this year I have tried to be a

bit more flexible with that cuz you do have your favorites and things like that it’s good to explore new voices so when

we do get it to production um I might just leave it blank with a description

so that that’s not really answered your question though so basically what happens is it comes from an account

manager the brief comes to me I’ll write something I’ll either decide on the

voice that I want and I’ll put the name on The Script or I’ll put a brief description we submit that into

production which is our Hub and then our head of production assigns it out to

Simon t or one of one of our other producers and then they’ll contact the right Voice or sometimes you guys might

get in touch with me and say hey I’m thinking of this person for this what do you think and then we’ll kind of confer

on it can I just jump in before you move on just thinking about the brief that you get did they say like okay I’ve got

this lowfat yogurt I want to tell people about then do you are you completely

creating the script like you’re thinking actually this is how I’m going to sell it or do they say we want you to lean

into this bit and this bit does that make sense it varies the level of briefs can can be

traditional you know old school back of a [ __ ] packet like they’ve they’ve got an open event and it’s we need to get XY Z

in free parking oh God face pain for the kids free parking excellent customer

service and um what’s the other one family run business um they’re like the Holy Trinity of um bad qualities to put

in a radio ad but um so it can be it can be that that level or it can be a

two-page document of right we want all these ads and we want specific ones for

quarters for events throughout the year and whatever or we might want to lean into specific things um happening like

awareness days and things like that we want to piggy back on the things that it’s it varies massively think about the

kind of creative freedom that you have and does the writing then vary a lot depending on the region that you’re writing for like if it is a regional ad

rather than a national ad yeah and like I I look after Wales now as well so I’m Northwest Midlands

and Wales um and a good example to answer that is I wrote something well I

wrote something recently that had to be translated into Welsh um so I had to get a third party to do that um and Tom

helped me with that as well Tom produced that which was it was quite a faf actually getting it over the line wasn’t it but we we got we got it there in the

end um but a good example is I wrote something for Birmingham and I used the

word n so it was a it was an ad for um

alcohol around the Euros so people misusing alcohol around the euros and I

had a line in it that was now else to do and the account manager rang me and said

oh that’s not a thing so I didn’t realize now is just a northern ISM um so

I had to amend it but it’s that that’s only a small thing obviously think that

that pivot You’ got to do is is interesting yeah you got yeah be mindful of like when you’re working writing for

different regions they have different little slang terms and stuff so to make it laser accurate for that area yeah to

remember those little slang bits and can’t get them mixed up and that carries through to when you’re picking a voice as well to making sure that you know if

if the client wants a specific accent that you know you’re choosing choosing someone who can represent that region

that area but also you know we quite often just get you know Northern male 30s 40s something like that but you have

to be really careful you have to be really careful because do they mean Northerners in

Northwest Manchester do they mean Liverpool do they mean uh Lancashire or do they mean um Yorkshire or tside or or

Newcastle you know there’s so many variants in in the northern accent just as there are in in Southern Accents you

know when you go between Southeast and and Southwest and you know and different again when you get up to Scotland so you

do have to be mindful of that as well um because clients particularly local clients will be sensitive to um those

nuances in in voices in accents I think you’re finding that more and more Now with uh with the fact we can Target

locally to different uh audiences the local of voices is actually really important um there definitely been a

change in the last year and a half or so two years and it has to be authentic you know you can’t be you know somebody

putting on a Yorkshire accent yeah or or somebody putting on a cockney accent

because they will know yeah we know um and and so you know that there is a big thing about authenticity now as well um

that that you have to bear in mind um when we’re choosing The Voice have you noticed like in terms of the type of ads

you I mean I can certainly say this for the ones I’ve done with you guys um I’ve said for a while across a lot of the

work I’m doing it seems to lean on a more yeah I think authentic is a good word to use but an

authentic real human style not just delivery but story so have you noticed a

bit of a shift in that respect like the way you’re writing scripts the way you’re trying to tell the story the voiceover you’re picking is is it less

commercial in inverted commas and more authentic in terms of how it sounds it’s

natural I’d say from my from my perspective um I think people want to

hear someone that they can relate to on air now I think podcasts have a massive part to play in that people like to

listen to people’s voice and talk not be directed and commanded in a certain way yeah so I think we’re definitely seeing

more natural reads and more um real

reads for sure that we’re getting through but that in itself is a style that’s you know

that’s yeah it’s it’s not just you know sit somebody in front of a micophone and get to talk you have to work at sounding

natural I think that’s so true we talked bit about that before and I think there’s been an increase of people like I’ve been contacted from clients saying

they want me to sound like an influencer like I’m on social media and it’s getting that balance between being

everyday person but also not because you need to you know be able to talk about a brand so it is is quite a difficult

balance you got yeah I me like Paul obviously you write scripts so you obviously you know

how they need to be created and need to sound but like I’ve not from bow but just other places in general you see sometimes a script and it’ll say um

it’ll lean on the fact that it needs to sound like a normal person talking but the language that’s used like smells

like that do you know what I mean I I made a joke about it a few episodes ago and it’s so true it’s like when you see

these daytime adverts about the funeral plan adverts or something it’s like hello Deborah oh hello Jonathan how like

we don’t talk like that that’s not that very organic you know what I mean and sometimes I’ll see some scripts and you think you’ve got to humanize this you

got to make this sound totally natural given the fact that you know nobody talks that way do you know what I mean

so I was going to say those those conversational adds the sort of Bane of our existence and it’s always clients

who want them um and Tom nod at this point it’s the the the real struggle

with that is you could have a natural conversation but probably not in 30 or

40 seconds CU you’ve got to establish the scene you’ve got to you know is it over a coffee or a um a busy moment in a

household you’ve got to use sound effects to establish the scene um and if

you’ve not given it enough time then you end up establishing the scene with the words and then it can sound very sort of

exposition heavy and quite contrived so I think with that if you were going to

do a conversational ad you want that longer piece of time um and don’t me wrong you can do them like you can do

them well if you if you’re clever but the the reason they end up so bad so often I think is because you’ve got such

a short space of time and obviously we can’t just write whatever we want we we’re T tagging x y and Zed whatever the

client wants to hit from that brief so you’ve got to establish a scene you’ve got a sales message in you’re got to get

a call to action in there and you’re cramming it all to into 30 seconds it’s almost like the impossible task really

yeah I get that that’s for enough I think it’s the content that dictates what uh you know how those ads sound

like Paul says you got to get in those those points but no one’s talking about dishwashers over a fence good they are

this is it exactly you’re talking yeah it’s outside it’s outside

influence isn’t it that you guys will know yourselves like you’ll want to read something a certain way and your client

will go no can you read it like this and you’re like whoa no why so like none none of us set up to to write a bad

advert but sometimes external uences means you can’t help what they want to

put in there yeah I think one thing to to get around those ads sounding so those style of ads sounds so stilted and

unnatural is well obviously you need a better script first of all sometimes that that can’t be helped but um you

know technology now you know like you know we’re recording this now we can all see each other um and you know things

like clean feed that we use for our sessions you can have multiple people on at the same time but in the days of ISDN

or in the days when you had the voiceovers you know you book them for an hour they come in Record 12 scripts and

and buger off again um you couldn’t do that you just it was just one-on-one so

with the technology we’ve got available to us now if I get a you know a conversational script I’ll get both V on

at the same time so they can at least react and respond to each other love that even though so good yeah absolutely

so so and that’s you know that’s something that the the technology that we’ve got now has enabled us to do but

also conversation or you know like two people talking ads don’t always work either because

radio is a very personal medium and it should be you know the the person who’s you know it’s one-on-one in a way yeah

so if if if you’re listening to a conversation you’re immediately cut out of it I like that that’s like you’re

almost e dropping yeah yeah yeah that’s a really good point actually yeah and with a radio advert you want it to sound

like someone’s talking to you yeah yeah about that person yeah but you make a good point

about uh the times when you do get two people on to create that organic feeling because I little things like that they

can make such a tremendous difference and it goes back to you guys will know every time I’ve worked for you I always say have you got the music because just

having something like that enables you to dial in that little bit more to how it needs to sound with the right inflections intonations Etc just those

little details can make the difference in making it feel as organic as possible you know what I mean all about the vibe

yeah AB I mean it’s it’s not a deal breaker if you don’t have it you don’t have it but it definitely helps and and I think yeah having the idea of having

two people on to have that conversation it’s like I always said like I don’t really do too much of radio adverts

because they’re much shorter scripts but if it’s like a pro I do a lot of promo stuff which is like 60 to 90 seconds and

it depending on the style of it um I will sometimes ask am I okay to ad lib so if it’s if it’s meant to be coming

from me as a person as if I’m playing a character almost you don’t tend to talk as rigid

as a script look so I say okay if I add Li a little bit here just the tiniest little difference can make it sound way

more authentic you know what I mean so I thought I did actually with the one um that Paul that you wrote for adoption

now U if are you coming to Vox tomorrow by the way I am yeah mate going to I’m

there to see you win oh you need to get some cont Mikey I know so right so yeah

so for those that listen so I’m up for um an award tomorrow at Vox for best radio advert which Paul wrote which is

for adoption now this the second time this has been nominated cuz it was nominated at one voice back in may we missed out on that one but I’m conf I

technically didn’t unfortunately I had two scripts nominated against myself but

with with Vox I’m quietly confident of Vox because the selection process is tougher because so one voice you have a

males and a females category for all the um award types at Vox there’s just it’s

just best radio best human performs in the radio so it’s a mix of male and female so to get on that list is even harder so for that had to be on there

again um you know you have to go in there with a bit of confidence who produced that does have interest Sharon

Sharon wrote that Sharon produced that yeah sorry yeah we should just say actually you it’s not just me and Tom

that part of the production team yeah want to say their names they give a bit a shout out there are eight of us um so

yeah shout out to Sharon Rick Howard and uh who else we’ got Carl and we’ve got

Allan and Stewart up in Scotland as well and yeah just just the best team of

people that I’ve I’ve with well yeah our great leader Mr Chris piece oh nice yeah but yeah it’s yeah

really really good team we absolutely couldn’t with on this call though I think this was this wasn’t a selected

favoritism we just sort of tried to get together you know we obviously reached out the idea but if we could get everybody on we obviously would do that

would be hilarious time that’ be yeah that would be our morning call so you know yeah can we just come along we come along yeah

it’s he probably there every morning yeah but well just to wrap up was going to say yeah with that adoption now one when I spoke to Sharon she was okay with

me doing some of those little ad libs and that’s what gave it more of that authenticity so it’s you

know yeah I think it it needs it needs that it needs it needs a bit of color doesn’t it you know like I I wrote that

I performed it in the pitch how I wanted it but you guys are are doing this day

in day out adding those little emotional nuances and things like that I I

sometimes get a scrip back and go oh that’s not quite what I had on my head but I really like it and that’s when

like you really appreciate the job that you guys do because you can’t just extract what’s in my head and if you did

it wouldn’t always be the best piece of work you know because I’m not always right as much as I like to think I am

you know I’m not always right um so there there’s plenty of times as well those nuances are added in production as

well so like Simon or Tom will say can we just do this with with this or I know

you were talking about this piece of music but if you thought about this and then all of a sudden this ad that you

had in your head is completely different but it’s so much better um and I think

it it needs those quality people all the way through the process 100% so just so

thinking about on that and expanding a bit more about working with voiceovers obviously you guys you must I mean how

does it like so in terms because I can’t remember how I started working with Bower um yeah cuz people are going to be listening to this who want to get in

with you guys so like how do you find your how do I get work so for people listen this undoubtedly thinking how do

I get to work with bow what are things you look for in a voice over what are things that maybe are won’t go as far I

say red flags that’s a bit too severe but what are things that may you’re not ready there’s a

list but for for those that are going to be listening like I say undoubtedly be thinking about how they could work about what’s what do you look for in someone

that you think they can be right for the projects that you have Etc like talk us through that sh first yes yeah go for it yeah I

mean I think you’re listening to the the quality of the voice I mean and that’s that’s the most important thing uh you

know that’s kind of where it begins and ends so things like the clarity of the voice um good

diction um and also you know what’s what’s this person like to work with you

know you kind of want a an easy relationship the the the the uh producer vo relationship is quite an odd one

because it’s quite intimate in a way you know we recording just Audio Only you’re wearing your nice headphones you’ve got

a good mic and you’ve got this voice as made that really creepy and it’s not

ever not ever been like that that’s Sim all of his sessions he doesn’t he

doesn’t he not yeah no that’s that’s how I do all my session but no but yeah but it is quite quite intimate you’re so

right I’m not thought about it like that but I think especially because you can’t see each other you are so focused then hyper focused on what the person’s voice

is sounds like and saying to you obviously yes yeah yeah so I you I’ll you know do a few takes reading the

scripts and then I’ll look away from the scripts and just listen to purely the voice right on on some of the takes you

know you know close my eyes so I can’t even see the scripts and things like that so yeah I think that’s kind of um

yeah you know make sure you’ve got good equipment as well and you know and that you’re around to do the work yeah yeah

yeah cuz you know how how how we work it can be quite you know quite quick

turnaround uh so a lot of the time it’s sort of same day um uh and so you know

if somebody’s not around or doesn’t respond to us you quickly enough then we

the pressures of the of the job just dictate that we have to move on yeah yeah well true actually as well because

in nearly every other line of work you finish the job you send it off and like eight weeks later it’s like have you got

a final letter yet I can you can sh me with bow it’s like 15 minutes later there you go the skills that you guys

have is unbelievable you’re like you have a session with you and it’s like six minutes and then like you know 5 minutes later you sent the full

recording you’re like how is this even possible it blows my mind yeah what

about you what what do you look for in the voice I wrote I wrote bullet points right but your your answer was so

philosophical and great S no we that as well I

think I think for me definitely just echoing what Simon says uh it’s it’s

having that voice it’s it’s knowing your craft like I can tell some people who

have have picked it up and give it a go but then I can tell people that have studied and have and have you know practiced um I guess that comes with

experience um don’t get me wrong I’ve worked with some amazing voiceovers that have just got into it um so yeah in

terms of like little bullet points I know this sounds really it sounds really corny but I put reliability availability

and versatility in terms of it’s good to lean into your Niche but

I think for you to get work it’s good to be versatile um in in terms of different types of reads um so yeah having having

a bit of Versatility to your voice won’t hinder you I don’t think

um understanding technical stuff is really is really important in terms of Mike set up like Simon said good quality

Equipment U yeah I mean we can help you you know if there problem on the line oh

right it’s not sound quite right you know I’m you know quite often you what what mix have you got or what you know

what’s your what’s your interface just look at that change this do that blah blah all right don’t get me wrong I won’t like I won’t like not work with

you if you haven’t got top range equipment that’s not what I’m saying just like um but it helps to have a

little bit of technical knowledge and stuff and deliverables and whatever um and then for me I think understanding

direction is is key to uh to this I like letting a voice do a take themselves how

they want to do it in their in their style how they’ve read it how they’ve heard it because if I start inputting

direction from the off a lot of Direction I think it can sometimes throw

the voice from like Oh I thought I was going to do it this way and then you know your collaboration on the project

is lost because I’ve I’ve dictated from the from the offset so uh it’s a collaborative effort and understanding

Direction I think is really important um and then that’s on us to to direct well

as well um you know it’s trying to trying to think what I

say it’s it’s difficult sometimes for me some I’ve only been in the industry six years I still have some sometimes where

I’m listening to it and like I don’t quite know where to go with this and then we’ll chat about it and um you know

we’ll we’ll get round it and in some way so yeah I think understanding direction is really nice and then just be a nice

person like Simon says it is an intimate it’s an intimate job you know the relationship I’ve got with Vios are

amazing they’re like friends although I’ve never seen some of them in person it’s my main form of social interaction

yeah literally I mean I’ve I’ve got these four walls and then I’ve got the people at the end of the line um

especially since so you know just just being nice and approachable and then from a marketing standpoint I think this

was like on one of the other questions um I think you got to Market yourself really well as a vo now to kind of be

seen I think well how do you mean in terms of like making makeing sure you’ve got presence online you’ve got to have a

presence online not just a website I don’t think I know Tic Tac as Jen said I

don’t want that to be my legacy okay sorry slowly getting way but you know

Tik Tok and stuff not from just us recruiting and and working with you but I think for you to be seen and

valuable online you’ve got to be a brand yourself kind of now I think that’s the way it’s gone um unfortunately there are

so many voiceovers now it’s so not accessible but um people have

Diversified into that line of work actors have become voices um well I think you know ju just looking at um you

know when I started in in the industry in the 90s and my context database was two sheets of A4 oh wow pinned to the

office notice board there were probably about uh 25 to 30 mvos on one sheet and

maybe about 20 fos on the other sheet they all all ISDN voices that was it so

you’re probably like 40 50 voices Max shall we count yeah now now well yeah no

I i’ tell you we’ve got almost 400 people registered um as voice overs wow

work only registered and that’s only registered to work with B so that you know there’s been been that massive

massive explosion there’s been been a lot of people come come into the industry certainly the last few years definitely so leading on from that how

do people get because I know they’re going to want to know how do they get on that magic list what’s the process did

they email you you cold calling what are we talking well I I was going to say I

asked this before um because I was on a panel at one voice so I asked the producers this and it’s it’s a bit of a

mixed bag how we want to be contacted and stuff but I get messages on LinkedIn all the time but I’m not the best on

LinkedIn um uh but I do I have been cleating a list of people that have

reached out recently that I am just going to share um with the producers that here’s some new voices that have

reached out to me and people do email and I don’t mind that but obviously you

guys have got your own preferences can I just before we move on can I just touch on my sort of what we looking for a

voice cuz I just wanted to sort of no no it’s all right it’s your podcast I’m just gu part of it no no no

not at all you’re very much part of it if you’ve got something to say I’ll forget otherwise that’s all um but it

was just cuz with Tom saying you very much need your brand I don’t necessarily think that’s the worst thing in the

world though cuz what I look for in a voice is uniqueness so I like it when

I’m walking around Asda and he one of my mates you know like you know it’s like

oh that’s person you know we love that so you like um when I’m at a till in

Co-op like getting off a train you know what I mean I’m like ah and but what I

find is I particularly struggle with RP that when people are doing RP accents a

lot of them just blend into one for me so if I’m looking for somebody who’s sort of neutral RP whatever and I’m like

all these five voices are interchangeable so I feel like it’s knowing your own brand like Tom said

knowing your Niche but sort of accepting that as well as being versatile so make

sure that you are going for the jobs you know you really fit well with don’t try

and stretch yourself too much because what you are you you will be hired for

what you’re good at a lot of the time and what I like is to immediately know that like that adoption now when I hear

that on a Mikey like I know in well obviously I know cuz I wrote the bloody

thing and I know you voiced it but like even if I hadn’t wrote written it I’d

know immediately that that’s your voice you know because I know you and I know how good you are and everything um so

just finding finding your own um your own unique skills you know your own

unique style as well but sorry for getting in contact with us that’s how I would prefer think LinkedIn emails and

people I I like to go to voice over meetups and so people come and as soon as they find out you work for B than

people do kind of got a bit of a magnet yeah um people are going to hear this

after Vox and they’ll see you then like [ __ ] cringing didn’t take the

opportunity to chat to you never mind but there is just one thing uh just want to go back quickly to something that Tom you said before about uh positioning

yourself online having a presence your brand just on that do you feel from your

for your personal um recruitment sort of process do you feel that somebody having

brand credibility as in like like is it not just enough to send you a commercial reel and say this is what I can do do

you need to look at what they’ve done like are they well experienced all that sort of stuff does that B that how much

an important part of that is it no I think my my view on the brand is if you’re getting booted by clients like

National clients that aren’t us uh um I think I’m just going off based based off

that and also working in uh the music industry slightly I know how important Brandon is and that initial landing page

on Instagram or Tik Tok um I just think for future voices getting into it I

think it’s very important for them to have that um yeah for for for our

recruitment um you know I’ve never not looked at someone’s Instagram page and if they haven’t got something I’m I’m I

won’t use them that’s not that’s not the case um okay yeah for for echoing what Paul said LinkedIn emails um and yeah

I’m yet to go to one to a voice conference but that would be a great place for people to uh to put yourself

forward and say hi because just following up from that then if you saw if you were scrolling social media and

you saw a voice and you thought oh wow they’ve got something special or they’ve got there something I don’t have would

you reach out and contact them I’ve done that once with someone um that was doing

their own podcast and I I heard their voice and I was like we haven’t got a voice like that okay um I’m yet to I’m

yet to put a on the sheet but I’ve made that conversation and made that connection saying you could actually

have a really good voice for this um I think it was like a a South London type

um Urban read um but yeah it was it was you know I with the ear was just like

yeah that sounds that sounds cool I reckon you’ve got a you could have a chance but um yeah the social Media

stuff it’s kind of I know for your guys uh reach and stuff um C condrin I know

she’s quite big on Tik Tok and she’s got she’s got a million views on one of on

one of her things I think Abby Phillips as well she uses Tik Tok quite well um so I think for your guys visibility

that’s why it’s important not necessarily to get on our books yeah but for you guys then at the same time

though if you look at like Jack is a prolific with radio ads he doesn’t have a particularly strong social media

presence what I’ve seen but he is very very very busy with what he does he’s fantastic so I don’t know I suppose it’s

a bit of a weird an anomaly isn’t it because Jack Jack also used to work for

Bower though oh okay okay well but to be fair that was a long long time ago but

that’s how Jack started was was doing bits and Bobs um with me and head of

creative for rock at the time was a guy called John O molu who took me on originally uh um and Jack was doing the

writing job in the Northeast and then did it as a little bit of a side hustle to start with so he had a few

connections but to be fair the landscape at B has changed that much now he it’s not like he has any previous connections

other than a handful of us sorry I interrupt you Simon said not only that but he you know he started out possibly

you know just before the whole kind of social media boom anyway it’s getting more and more buil his credibility up a

long time ago I think

sorry well I know I was just going to say his um obviously his credibility you know

from obviously from a few years ago if he’s built up it you know shows his uh every time it comes to like award season

it’s like Mr win at all Jack he’s just fantastic we’re not B I didn’t realize I didn’t realize touched on there why he

gets work though cuz he’s very good and he knows exactly what his style is and

he is very versatile as well but he also has that core so immediately for me um

if I want to write something with Jack in mind I know exactly how he’s going to deliver it yeah yeah yeah I didn’t

realize because I listen to talk sport every day and one of my things I’d always love to do is like do I’ve done some ads on talk sport but like do one

of the continuation sort of things and about must have been about two years ago now there was a new one that started

like talk sport breakfast and I thought I knew who that was and then when Jack won I think it was mvo of the year in

2022 he used that as part of his promo at the awards and I was like holy [ __ ] it’s Jack so yeah it’s like he’s yeah

I’m a big fan of his work he does I I did that recently I was the guardian podcast and um and there was one of the

voices I thought she’s got a nice voice I have to find out who that is and I kept hearing it and I couldn’t find out

who it was and then he turns to me Jenny Mack and he i’ let you know Jenny Ma how

did I not recognize a voice but I suppose yeah so yeah so from Tom

what you’re saying there so having having some form of social media presence so you’re discoverable for new people I think it’s important yeah new

voices keep top of mind though as well isn’t it so if you’ve got 400 people on your books if you then see a LinkedIn po

you know every three days from o or something it’s going to keep us top of Mind surely hopefully if you’re visible

if if I went on link and everything yeah I mean I me I do use it and that probably

is my main way of of finding new talent but it’s also a good way of keep keeping in touch I mean that’s how I found out

that you guys were doing this podcast it’s like oh oh Jen Jen and Michael are doing this podcast I I’ll check that out

so it’s you know it’s nice to kind of find out what you’re doing it’s almost like the periphery things that are more interesting rather than the actual this

is the work that I’m doing yeah that’s good to know it’s the same as anything I was going to say sorry Mikey like um

make a connection like I’ve I’ve got a three-year-old little girl like if if

you’ve got a kid we’ve got something in common I’ve got two dogs like me me and

Lucy fish talk about dogs whenever I’ve I’ve hired her for something um so it’s

and she’s um just had a baby I since she recently um so obviously we’ve got that

in common but it’s like I I’m into my martial arts as well and when when me and Mikey went out in Manchester we we

kind of bonded over talking about that and a whole other a bunch of things as well but it’s it’s ex get your

personality out there and connect with people as well because we’re all humans at the end of the day aren’t we we all

want to talk about our lives and stuff like that so make find the things in

common I find that well that is one of the tricky things because when you do want to just genuinely get to know

somebody I think sometimes W like when me and you first started getting to no other like I hope you doesn’t think I’m

trying to be friendly with him because I want to try and get work off him like I was definely I was just genuinely getting on with you like the work thing

had nothing to do with it um and I suppose that could be a thing isn’t it like I think some people can get nervous about trying to forge relationships with

people in case they you know it may look like it’s all fabricated just to get working it’s not a real like it’s not a

real want say friendship you know I mean but like a genuine reason to get to know somebody outside of work do you know what I mean and it’s like with LinkedIn

as well We’ve joked about this in the past if somebody that like if it’s a video content creator or something they post something and you’ll see like a

seat of voiceovers like commenting liking and liking and that’s fine it’s in most cases that’s organic and it’s

natural but sometimes it could be a little bit disingenuous because they just want to get on the radar of someone

as opposed to actually properly engaging with their content or actually getting to know someone you know outside of just

trying to book work you know what I mean yeah I did in the early days of LinkedIn I did a a job with someone that i’ never

used before and um they managed to they posted about this job on LinkedIn I

managed to spin it out to make it look like they’ve done six jobs cuz it was like you know it was for bow

but it was running on kiss and it was I think I think with cocacola and there was something else mentioned in there

and so they they made this one job look like all these different jobs and I was just like no that’s that’s not

on because I I know what you’ve done there did you say anything or did you keep stum uh no I didn’t say

anything it’s you know it’s it’s not my place to kind of call them out on that I didn’t really know them um but but but

it didn’t make for a good working relationship yeah of course it didn’t I would love to know then what I phrased

this really badly before but I can’t think of better way to phrase it but like what gets you excited when you’re doing this stuff like when if you get a

you know you’ve got your writing or whatever you get something you like oh I’m really excited to actually create this piece like what kind of things do

you love doing like what’s what’s exciting for you so for me I have a particular style

again I’m very versatile because I’ve been doing it a long time but sort of

sentimental emotional stuff is my kind of wheelhouse so like the adoption now

ad that is nominated um at Vox tomorrow or well it won’t be tomorrow now will it

when this goes out but um yeah uh sometime in the past um no this this

this will go out on Tuesday so Vox will have been like three four right okay that the hangovers will have just about lifted by the I starting to

settle but for that one I wanted to create a story that really created emotional an emotional connection with

the listener so that if people had been thinking about adopting even fleetingly this was going

to give them the push um so for me this whenever I get a brief that’s quite

exciting like that I can basically I want to make people cry I want to make people feel something you know you know

I want to make people feel something when they when they hear an ad um so that’s what sort of gets me going and

that’s what I love um and I love music as well I love when we’ve got an in-house composer so I love when we work

together on bespoke music um but I’ll do a nice little segue for you I also like

creating quite immersive stuff um where there’s a bit of a soundscape uh which I

know Tom is very good at and um really enjoys doing yeah nice thank thank you

for that nice we’ve done a few good ones haven’t we yeah um yeah for me I love a

soundscape um when I when I did my uh when I did my degree it was kind of

sounds scapy animation type stuff um and when I got this job I realized that

there is room and scope to do that um I know me and Simon have different views on sound effects um and how they can be

used in radio um I’m a fan um yeah love sound sound effects and stuff in terms

of a genre um of work to do I love doing dark stuff as well I think due to the

soundscape it kind of lends that so like if there’s a car crash in an ad or they

need to portray a scene that that you know uh it is quite dark I know it’s

it’s it’s weird but yeah stuff stuff like that so um I did I did an ad called

12 days of abuse and it was a horrific ad it was really hard to listen to but I was like do you know what this is this

is some of the best stuff that I’ve being able to do um again cuz you’re creating an emotion it was really jarring to hear and I was like if we can

do that over audio then that’s that’s really cool and then on the other side of the spectrum I love doing wacky stuff

um you know doing I did an Australian read with Kelly McBride for like a fun fair that was hilarious tornado Springs

and all of that and that was that was great fun yeah I mean getting to work on you

know individual pieces I think is what keeps this job fresh like the creativity you can put into an ad um every day yeah

we’re doing something different um so yeah just kind of amazing bit of everything but I like some dark stuff

and emotional stuff as well so yeah I think what Tom’s referring to there that is I’ve recently deign designed a

t-shirt that says I hate sound effects yes available for order after this B

yeah no I mean sound effects is is a different uh thing to to discuss I I

quite kind of like um creating scenarios so um you know that that will involve a bit of sound design

um and you know spot effects and things like that like I made one a couple of years ago um that was uh somebody in a

comedy you know telling a joke in a comedy club but failing really badly and I wanted to sound wanted it to sound

like you were there in the club now it’d be dead easy to do that um you know all in the Box on protols with plugins and

stuff I thought no I want this to sound like really really genuine so I ended up you know did did the session with the vo

and then I played the whole session back through the studio monitors and recorded it again from the back of the room so it

sounded so when you listened to it it sounded like wow you were listening to it within the room and then what I also

did was you know sometimes you get that little bit of feedback coming through a mic and stuff like that so I I played

the the uh dry voice again again back through the monitors but I turned the microphone onto the monitors and rode

the the volume level so that the microphone just kept feeding back a little bit so it create that kind of

authentic sound of feedback and then I mean that that was you know in a way that was that that was the fun part um

that was the the the easy part the hardest part was Finding like the the sound effects to go with it of the crowd

people jering and things like that I couldn’t quite find anything everything was just a little bit to American like Boo get off and all this sort of thing

so I ended up Ju Just just kind of um getting you know getting what I could out of those effects and then it was me

uh as as the the Heckler in the audit rubbish get off things like that and

yeah and it was just really good fun uh you creating that and that was you know for a comedy club in in West York sounds

amazing yeah it doesn’t matter whether you know whe whether it’s like a you know a local client or or a national

client or whatever you want their ad to be the best that it absolutely possibly

can and you know that that you know that starts with the scripts and it’s you’re getting a good voice and then everything

that that we bring to it but I think at the end of the day what I really like is getting getting a really good read

whether that’s an emotional one or a fun one and just getting you know getting the nuances

across and creating the illusion of time as well within an adver 30 seconds and oops the the reads actually 32 what can

we do with that so yeah create creating an illusion of uh space within that 30

seconds just on one thing just quickly as well in terms of like you said about having the right uh voice over and stuff

just one thing what asked before I’m assuming now obviously with all the voices you got um competition’s pretty

tough like can you spot pretty quickly somebody who is doesn’t have a great

deal of experience and against the other voices you’ve got they need to really sort of hone in on their craft a lot

more yeah I mean you can you hear people where you think they’ve got potential and you just support them a bit more in

sessions they might be a bit nervous uh a little hesitant um and you just

support them in in the best way that that you can uh and sometimes that is you know just kind of letting them do it

or you just kind of talk them through it a little bit more it’s a bit of handholding um so yeah you can you know

if you if you do come across somebody who think yeah they they’ve really got potential then it’s worth persevering

that’s nice it’s really comforting to hear I think a lot of people be relieved by that I have the um even though I’ve

been doing a little while you still have the nerves when you come in and it’s obviously you guys always put us at ease

you know with your talking to us um and but they’re so quick and I’m always left

with the are you sure are you sure there’s something else you want me to do because you do like two Tes you’re like yep I’m happy and I’m like really is

there not anything well you kind yeah you don’t kind of want to overwork it in a way as well because you you you can

kill a script doing that as well and I think we trust you it’s like okay well as long as they’re happy then I’m happy

but I think the neurotic inside all of us is like are you sure that’s what you want yeah I’m one of those sometimes uh

you’ll hear a piece of work and it’ll go out just say I wish I had one more chance to do that you know just to perfect this or perfect that but that’s

just the overthinking it you know I mean it’s still good to go out and be broadcast but I have this habit of like

I wish I could just change this wish I could change that but I think that’s just I think it’s just striving for Perfection you know it’s it’s just

having putting a high standard on yourself to you know wanting to produce a good piece of work and also as well

because if you do produce something good like you guys you’ll remember when you worked with someone that did a great job and you’re likely to go back to them

obviously you want to discover new people to work with but inevitably people who you’ve worked with in the past and you’ve had good experiences

with you’re going to remember that you know it’s it’s always good to work with new people yeah yeah we’re not super

scary no not far from it yeah it’s it’s I think making I think

you said gen like making uh making the vo feel comfortable is definitely like one key element of our

job is when you get into the session putting you at ease so you can perform essentially because that you know that

that kind of you know if you are a little bit worried or anxious or you’re not having a good day that can come

across in the read unfortunately sometimes and so so you just have to kind of you know find a way to help you

know whoever it is overcome it you I did a barber shop singing course about 10 years ago which really taught me how to

use my voice you know and and you know breathing and all that sort of thing and you know doing doing warmup exercises

and you just massaging your jaw and things like that so sometimes if I can hear that someone’s just sounding just a little bit you know a little bit tense

or let’s do just do a bit of breathing and stuff yeah like breathe out and Yeah and just find finding the voice at the

end of the breath and things and there we are that’s why we want the voice I wish we had like an

extra hour to talk to you because I I really want to know more about this Barber Shop quartet um course that you

did maybe that’s for another time can I just just before you move on joh just I do want to say one thing you have made a

really good point there because I think a lot of people who are maybe looking to try and work with Bower and you know

trying to get work there is obviously a nervousness about for some people doing a live session but I think you’ve made a great point that earlier on that uh

you’re all you’re just you’re people as well you’re people that just want to get the project right as well so it’s a team effort it’s not like you know you you

one in the voiceover stood there in front of this you know judging panel who was like you got to get it right

straight away you’re out it’s like no everybody works together and every single experience I’ve had working with

Bower has been an exceptionally positive one so for anyone listen to this it does have a fear about it I can promise you

you don’t need to worry about this no stupid question trust us we we don’t want re-records but there’s nothing there’s

nothing worse than getting an email back that like a job that you’ve ticked off your list is then back on your list to

to do a re-record got have you got another take but yeah that’s why you know I will always prefer doing a live

session yeah because because you do treat it as a collaborative thing don’t

don’t see it as something that you’ve just got to get out of the way or you I’ll just bang this one out for you mate sort of thing which is fine if you’ve

got a good working relationship you know producer via working relationship and you can trust each other uh you and and

you can sort of you get it across quickly you know in an email you know this this is what we need sort of thing but yeah if if it’s somebody

particularly you know new to the industry or we’ve not worked together a lot um you know just saying I can do a

self- record is a bit of a barrier to actually doing doing work and having a

good experience in doing that work yeah I do I I one thing I sort of try and the

one sorry start again one thing I try and position myself as when I work with people is that very much see me as part

of your team so while you’re if you want me to be the voice I am I am an external person but as far as I’m concerned you

know I want this project to sound as great as it possibly can so you know see

me as part of your team don’t give me a scripts I’ll do my own thing and I’ll whatever like I want to be as much involved in the process as possible so

their job’s easier so they know that I understand how if they if the client knows that I’m well on board with what

their needs are and I’m willing to you know work with them to get that project right as opposed to like for example

pickups for example this is a bit of a contentious area CU some people are like well we got a pick up oh it’s another 30

quid I’m like for me personally you know I’m I run a business and you know good

service goes a long way so for me if it’s like a small pickup I say look listen if it’s like one or two way don’t worry about it just come back to me I’ll

fix it because ultimately I want that project to be spot on because not only does it reflect good on you also reflects good on me so I think having a

collaborative team effort or teamwork approach really does go a long long way yeah yeah I know you know like you you

guys are running your own business and you know you can look at it as sort of like you know a customer relationship

but no I do think of it as you’re you’re my workmates you’re my colleagues a yeah

that’s so nice and that makes a great little segue into colleagues because oh man I hope this works Jen do you know

what time it is I’m very excited I’m very excited is it time for voiceover of the week

[Applause] [Music]

okay Jen uh you missed your queue oh that I did it before the music oh well never mind you didn’t

realize i’ added it in there I did not realize you playing the music but it sounds mint I love it I any excuse to

play that song I adore it so so go on ticket where’s your turn this week yeah so this week we have gone with Danny

Cohen H who has done an amazing bit of continuity um I think Danny does a lot of work in his era and you can tell his

voice is just iconic and it really made me laugh because this little clip is all

about the weather and you’ll hear it now you going to play it now Mikey I’m going to play right now thank you BBC I player

now on bbc1 Wheels let’s hope the weather is a little better than the 15,000 mph winds and 400° C that we had

yesterday here’s Ben with the weather for the week ahead I just love his voice well done dny yeah well done I don’t

know if you guys saw that saw the weather app and how crazy it was um so I think you know just picking up on those

kind of nuances is a big part of his job I think he does exceptionally well so well done yeah as well I think one thing

kind of Wonder because this to be fair this is something I didn’t really take into consideration as well that continuity is live yeah and you have

potentially millions of people listening to in the moment so to remain composed humorous sound natural all the way

through is no easy feet it’s no easy feet at all so yeah so well done danim congrat to you on this week’s most over

of the week yeah this is brilliant just one last thing I wanted

to ask actually well because everybody talks about the AI thing I just wanted your opinion from your side of the fence

what does the AI voices landscape look like for guys who for people who do book voiceovers have you seen this starting

to creep in or is it still very much ble it away I personally won’t use an AI voice

on well period I just don’t think uh like everything that we’ve said on this call it’s connection it’s human it’s

relatable it’s being absolutely working as a team I don’t want to give that to a computer um it completely kills it I

listened to its attempt at doing a radio ad the other day um and it was just I showed you the masam one didn’t I

remember yeah you show you showed me that as well there it’s just no you know I I can hear I know Ari is a train for

it but you know I can hear it it’s not amazing if you’re a voice over listening don’t be too scared I don’t think it’s

going to destroy the industry to be honest what what my concern is sorry

Mikey you go first no no just going to say you as a writer like what’s your take on it well fearful is the answer CU

um I always thought that um my job was

was golden it safe like oh a computer is not going to be able to be creative but

then like you see some of the scripts and and things like that and like my friend send me comedy poems and things

like that the chat GPT is written and stuff and I’m like oh wow that that’s actually not what I thought it was going

to look like um and now I’m not saying that I

can’t um I can’t write better than a an Android than an AI basically an Android

I’m getting old Terminator um they’re

coming but yeah what my concern is and I’ve had it in a couple of meetings recently in a couple of brief takes is

clients talking about oh we just put our brief into chat GPT as a prompt and this

is the script so like what I think as voiceovers you would need to be worried

about more than the industry using them is our clients I guess so then we might

not even get the work we might not get the job because Mr client or Mrs client thinks oh do you know what I can write

it myself chat GPT will do that I can voice it myself I just have to supply

the ad and it’s never going to be quite our level you know because we’ve got

lived in experience um that you can’t get to however a 30 second standard ad that’s

just sales messages and a few USPS I think AI you know you you could

see clients starting to just do that to save a few hundred quid um so that’s my

concern for as myself as a writer taking business from us and then indirectly it

takes business from you guys yeah yeah I suppose you you made a good point there though that that’s one of

the things that I I don’t worry about too much because I think the human emotion the human element it just simply

cannot replicate and like you said when you write your scripts there’s a there’s a there’s an emotion behind that uh

lived experiences however you want to phrase it but it’s something that you can it’s it’s an emotion you can put

into those words AI can’t do that it just replicates what has been fed can’t create something organic that has that

emotion because it doesn’t understand it so it’s not actually creating anything new is it it’s it’s what you put what you put into it and whatever whatever it

finds you know on on its searches on on the internet whatever so it’s only drawing on things that have happen

things that you know everything is in the past so you will never get anything new from it from a from a writing point

of view and it’s just the hyp but for some clients that’s okay I think that’s that’s the issue isn’t it but you just

got to hope there’s enough ones out there who want that authenticity sorry no it’s fine the hypocrisy though we’ve

talked about this a bit before but it’s like that all the reason we’ve said it about like conversational and person next door and that personal

recommendation they want that they want to feel that in their messaging but then they get a computer to write it the

hypocrisy in that would not BL yeah yeah feel like I always kind of use the

comparison as uh with books so like Kindle became this

thing that was going to kill off books yeah um but I think there’s something

about holding a book there’s something about smelling the pages there’s something about turning the the physical

act of of turning the page that a lot of people like so whilst I am a bit fearful that we will probably lose some clients

because they will just think they can do it themselves I do think that the Human

Experience will win eventually because that I I always think about that is like

people like people still use Kindles but I still think people like to have a book and that’s what I always kind of

whenever I’m having a little Panic about it thinking oh we God I’m going to have to find a new job soon um I kind of

think well I’ve got a bunch of books just off screen down here um you know what I mean so like I I like to think

that I’m at least going to have a place still as one of those books yeah I I I

completely utterly agree such a positive note to finish on I’d

say conscious that we’re taking lot of your time I know guys it’s been it’s been really insightful exactly what I

was of hoping to uh to to learn a bit more about what you guys do in the process and I think definitely for the people listening to this they will have

Come Away with a few uh golden nuggets of information you know your in a bit

Fuller yeah but but I think at at the end of it all out of everything that we’ve discussed it’s be a human being

yeah right just it’s it’s it’s just about that you know it’s about getting along together uh you know it’s not

about you know you know saying how brilliant you are or anything it’s finding a way to to tell us about yourself without kind of showboating or

anything it’s just like hi here I am yeah and and literally so I know you’re trying to wrap up but like it reminded

me when Tom said about those 12 days of abuse and like me and Mikey have done

adoption ads we’ve done a fire door safety ad together that I’ve written I think Simon produced that I did and Jen

Jen and I have done uh yeah water safety fire safety yeah literally could be

changing people’s lives you know as you know it’s it’s a very important job that

you guys do um selling that emotion on those particular emotional campaigns and

I don’t think AI is ever going to replace that you’re not going to have an authentic sound when you’re doing an

abuse campaign um adoption safety you know all those things they need to be

told by people who have got human experiences and human connections to

loss safety and you know and rebirth whatever you know taking a a new child

into your life and all that sort of thing um so it’s to remember that yeah I

don’t think AI is going to going to build up a cry in in that ad Mal actually reach Tears like yeah to the

point at near the end and I don’t think it’s going to get near that so yeah no I

agree you’re safe guys we’ve decided don’t worry everyone do not worry everything will be okay well yeah okay

we’ll uh we’ll call I I could keep going quite happily just me join just chatting away it’s fantastic we to

call yeah sincerely appreciate you taking time out your day it means a lot no thanks for asking us yeah no one yeah

thank you so much if uh yeah you know it’s yeah it’s just been it’s been really informed so I really appreciate

it so uh that’s it for this week folks thank you so much for uh sticking on board and listening with us um we hope

you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed recording it and uh I guess we’ll see you next week see you next week thank you bye see folks bye bye bye bye

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